If you go offhsore, spare pump plus extra impeller, one or two injectors, heater zincs seem essential, Hanson Marine has some additional recommendations (eg, thermostat) which I have not yet used.

Symptoms Blocked U pipe

Engine always started normally. As it ran temperature continued to rise until alarm sounded at about 190. Always shut down at that time. The amount of water from the exhaust varied from little to none. Eventually the manifold temperature caused white smoke or steam.

FW pump looks new and old owners (who are great people, perfectly honest through-out the purchase process and justifiably proud of Flicka) confirm this.

There is a site, marinedieseldirect.com, that has parts for most of the engines found on Seawinds.

The Engine Room

As often as we are so easy to complain about having to fire up the "Iron Genoa", or to raise the "Dee-sail" we are all acutely aware that each time we hit the switch there remains a possibility that the aging diesel will cough, sputter or bang noisily to remind us that such a vital and possibly neglected part of the family of systems aboard is undoubtedly the next thing on the "to-do" list.

Since the prototype Hull # 1, now Ed Dimock's sprite Camelot, and right up to the last, Sal Aloi's # 130, the time span of the oldest to the newest ASW II has seen several engine types installed by the various incarnations of the folks at Allied.

Seawind II owners are certainly not the only group to suffer a lack of engine access at the hands of designers and builders and even most of the current generation builders still sacrifice the space in favor of more attractive interior options.

Candidly, quiet advancing age and the commonly, limited ability to provide adequate attention to the power plant find most of us in doubt about the expected life span of the original engine.

I feel certain each of us has peered into that cavern at least once lately and wondered just how tough a job really is the removal.

We price the replacement engines and the peripheral modifications and the mounting estimate seems to allow us the thought that, "maybe this is better addressed when the time comes".

If each of us were so immediately capable of writing a check that magically employed a qualified mechanic to make the job so much easier, that check could easily be near $20,000.

Westerbeke no longer produces the venerable W-30 but offers two "suitable" replacements. The mounting is different in each. The overall dimensions prove that the overall length is close but not enough to ensure that a new prop shaft is not required. The RPM range is not compatible with the slow turning original and a new prop is about $ 400 for the basic three-blade with a flatter pitch to accommodate the higher revs, considerably more for exotic folding ones. The alternator mounting is now to port side, making the belt adjustment more difficult as it will now hide behind the galley sink. Three-gang crank drive pulleys add another almost $ 300 to the mounting bill.

Once the old engine is sitting under a tarp on the dock alongside, that tangled mess of spaghetti hovering in the engine compartment beckons us to come hither. Re-wiring and certainly a few bits of aged plumbing attach themselves to the list of peripherals.

Some of my own research has turned up that the Kabota, 35-horsepower engine, used primarily in the Bob Cat skidder/loaders, is the same core unit as the Universal and is available as an industrial "drop-in" engine and at retail, can be purchased for about $4000. The associated marinizing parts can be purchased or made but in either case add another $2000.

The transmission of choice for all of the above, except the Yanmar, is the Hurth H-100 or the H-150 and new, these dig into the checkbook for an additional $1200 - $1600. Overhaul of the existing Hurth is not difficult but requires a few special tools. Parts for the overhaul could run as high as $500. Quotes from three reputable Hurth servicemen range from $400 to $750 for an overhaul dependent upon the total of the parts replaced.

I feel certain there are other alternatives but for most owners the "major overhaul" of their existing unit is certainly a very viable option.

Parts for Buhk and Westerbeke are available and expensive but when considering the peripheral items required for most conversions the overall expense to re-build is quite reasonable in the long run.

In any case, the common aspect seems easily recognized that removal and installation of the engine is apparently the most daunting task due to the radically offset access doors of the design.

Don Bundy, Talisman, # 129, who frequently shares his comments, has written a very simple removal procedure that most likely is typical of most ASW II's.

The only change he offered after regarding my query, was the lifting points, clarified and certainly simplified the process. I had pointed out that the mainsheet tackle is normally located just above the after end of the bridge deck and cannot provide a vertical lifting point. I suggested by moving the tackle forward to a point just above the engine compartment bulkhead and supporting the new lift point with a halyard or topping lift so the engine can be first hoisted to the bridge deck and then off the boat. He added another valuable view of using the tackle for multiple utilities in this follow up note:

Recently, Don Bundy posed a question, regarding the expected lifespan of a diesel engine.

My varied service experience as an insurance surveyor/adjuster for marine and industrial, a vocational teacher of diesel engine and as a technician had offered me some basics regarding this.

As one of my clients runs a trucking business he equated the answer as follow; each long-distance tractor should run 1,000,000 miles before overhaul... Using this as a baseline to compare to the accepted rule to our diesels I did a calculation. 1,000,000 miles divided by 60 miles per hour (average) indicates 16,666 hours of operation.

The trucks in his current delivery fleet are all diesels spec'd with oversized engines to provide minimum wear per mile. The 1984 International van is still running flawlessly and has yet to have its overhaul and the mileage on the 'clock' is 765,000+.

Somehow I suspect that the diesels in sailboats should be viewed far more like the stationary rather than the automotive diesel. Given that injectors, pumps, push rods, belts and other periphery are prone to failure and cause damage by overheating, salt-water ingestion, corrosion, hydro-locks and the resultant, often-fatal engine damage, it would appear that the engines with consistent and diligent maintenance might last, virtually forever.

Even if all accepted rules of thumb are but hypothetically halved, by reason of the various and destructive factors including the owner's inability to be totally diligent in maintaining the engine in their sailboat; then it seems also reasonable to assume that few of us actually put more than a couple of hundred hours per season on old "Thumper". Then this, may in fact, actually be the single most deteriorative factor in determining life span in boat diesels.

By design, the diesel engine thrives on a higher effort factor than the gasoline engine. This design element is most often determined by its predetermined load at a predicted RPM range. The diesel seems, by most experts, 'happiest' when it is carrying its expected load at 85-90% of its maximum RPM.

A recent discussion with one of the engineers at Westerbeke revealed that the original W-30 engine was designed to have a full throttle RPM of 2350 and that the reduction for best 'power' efficiency is at 2115 RPM.

I admit that even as experienced as I may be in the theory, I am guilty of rarely running my own Westerbeke at more than about 1950 RPM for what 'sounds' and 'feels' to be its comfort zone when powering upwind in a bit of a sea. Generally, if just wandering towards the next waypoint, on a glassy sea, the tachometer rarely sees more than about 1700 or 1800 RPM and Sea Quill clocks out a steady 5.5 knots, consuming about .5 gallons per hour. Fuel efficiency certainly suffers measurably for the sake of another quarter of a knot.

If we analyze the actual use percentages of the typical applications, I suspect most of us would agree that the diesel in our boat spends far more time at 12 - 1500 RPM charging batteries and turning the refrigeration compressor that it does pushing our presumed 17,000 pound, fully-laden, displacement at 85% of our theoretical hull speed (of 6.8 knots) or, 5.8 knots.

Somehow, I recall a fairly large volume of mail from some owners who discussed fuel efficiency of their boats at various RPM ranges and boat speeds but I seem unable to find that group of correspondence. If memory serves me correctly, however, most reported similar results to most of my own experience with my boat.

If I am allowed to hazard a guess that generalizes the life span of a marine diesel with nominal care and feeding it would probably range near 5,000 hours. If the same latitude is offered in generalizing the 300 hours pre season, the math offers a 16 year life span and most of us seem to have exceeded that.

The "engineering spaces" topics also provide us a look at the large volume of mail and comments regarding cutlass bearings, shafts, shaft seals, flexible couplings, exhaust systems and cooling systems.

So with the job of sorting through these topics and associated owner comments, in order to prepare for another installment, this essay ends with my hopes that some of our most basic diesel mail has been covered to date. I intend to follow up shortly with a brief essay on fuel, fuel tanks, filters and fluids before moving on the rest of the engineering spaces".

Does Pathfinder has a website or an email address or a tel/fax number? all these references would be useful, as it seems that repowering our Seawinds seems to boil down to a choice between them and Yanmar, and I may have to consider that step (Aye!).

Date: Mon Feb 4, 2002 4:41pm

Subject: Re: Engine in the Cabin

Dick,

I�m trying to put off the $10k price tag for 3-5 years, but know the day of reckoning is coming.

Right now my engine has about 2700 hours on it, so it seems reasonable to get another couple of thousand before putting a ton of money into it. I�m hoping to spend about $1000 on this work.... which would be a reasonable cost to get the extra years out of it.

Jack, 057K Voyager

At 10:18 AM 2/4/02, you wrote:

The photo of the engine the cabin is pretty neat.

For myself, I would take this opportunity to install an Yanmar. One never knows how long the present engine will last. My own engine has over 5000 hours and 25 years, but the engine is an orphan and essential parts are no longer available. The Yanmar probably has better temperature regulation, lighter and more room in the engine room. The price of Westerbeke parts seems unreasonable. My Westerbeke heat exchanger lasted about 22 years with yearly changes in the zinc. But it clogged up so that it would tend to overheat at high rpm.

Tim Colwell told me he spent over $10,000 for his new Yanmar installation which he did himself.

Dick Weaver SWII75K

----- Original Message -----

From: Jack Ganssle

Sent: Monday, February 04, 2002 4:41 PM

Subject: Re: [Allied_Seawind_II] Engine in the Cabin

Dick,

I�m trying to put off the $10k price tag for 3-5 years, but know the day of reckoning is coming.

Right now my engine has about 2700 hours on it, so it seems reasonable to get another couple of thousand before putting a ton of money into it. I�m hoping to spend about $1000 on this work.... which would be a reasonable cost to get the extra years out of it.

Jack, 057K Voyager

At 10:18 AM 2/4/02, you wrote:

The photo of the engine the cabin is pretty neat.

For myself, I would take this opportunity to install an Yanmar. One never knows how long the present engine will last. My own engine has over 5000 hours and 25 years, but the engine is an orphan and essential parts are no longer available. The Yanmar probably has better temperature regulation, lighter and more room in the engine room. The price of Westerbeke parts seems unreasonable. My Westerbeke heat exchanger lasted about 22 years with yearly changes in the zinc. But it clogged up so that it would tend to overheat at high rpm.

Tim Colwell told me he spent over $10,000 for his new Yanmar installation which he did himself.

Dick Weaver SWII75K

Date: Mon Feb 4, 2002 0:07pm

Subject: westerbeke diesel parts

Some Westerbeke diesel engines use the Kubota block. Kubota has a web site and it will link you to their dealers and even those that sell used diesel tractors. Parts should be more reasonable from these guys.

Date: Mon Feb 4, 2002 8:32am

Subject: Engine Removal

Well, folks, Voyager�s engine is now in the main cabin (see the attached picture). I removed much of the sink cabinet per Paul�s suggestion and most of the bulkhead to the engine room.

It was handy having a 14 year old, to unbolt the prop shaft coupling. That�s really hard to get to.

The rest of the job wasn�t too hard, just incredibly tedious removing all of the wiring and plumbing. I dunno if it will ever all go back together...

The engine itself is very heavy. Three tackles and two middle-aged adults were barely up to the job, though it was only an hour to remove it once everything was disconnected and unbolted. We slid a 2x10 under the engine and pulled it off the beds onto that, and then along the board into the main cabin. It�s now resting on that, in a cradle I made that supports the two front engine mounts so passing wakes won�t tip it over.

It looks like getting the thing back into the engine room is going to be much harder than getting it out.

What a mess! 25 years of wear and tear have made it rather rusty and ugly. I plan to degrease it somehow and hit it with some Mr. Westerbeke red paint. And, do the head, replace many, many gaskets, etc. The exhaust manifold had a lot of goo in it so needs cleaning. The rear oil seal leaks so the trans has to come off. I�m not sure how to tell how much life is left in the heat exchanger, but will remove it and at least peer inside and clean the thing.

I�m keeping a photo journal and will send them all with commentary to Howard for the web site when the whole project is done... though at the moment it seems overwhelming.

Jack, 057K Voyager

Date: Mon Feb 4, 2002 0:09pm

Subject: Re: Engine Removal

Sounds like fun.

Is there any way to rig tackle or a comealong aft to pull the engine back in?

I can usually break away until about 1300 when I turn into a chauffeur. If you need a body, just give a yell.

Howard WA4CWK

Date: Mon Feb 4, 2002 4:02pm

Subject: Re: Engine Removal

Howard,

"Fun" might not be the word I�d use right now!

To reinstall the engine I�ll put another short 2x10 under it, with a layer of slippery stuff between the two boards, and use a come-along and/or levers to horse it back. That will put it high enough to clear the beds. But right now I have so much work to do to the thing that it�ll be a while - March I hope - before reinstalling it.

Jack

At 09:09 AM 2/4/02, you wrote:

Sounds like fun.

Is there any way to rig tackle or a comealong aft to pull the engine back in?

I can usually break away until about 1300 when I turn into a chauffeur. If you need a body, just give a yell.

Date: Wed Feb 6, 2002 0:40pm

Diesel engines and parts

I recommend checking with Crinan Marine for engines and/or parts. They deal in Bukh, Yanmar, Westerbeke, and Universal. I have found them to be up to half as expensive on certain engine parts for my Bukh as opposed to domestic dealers. They also do a lot of work on engines and can give you intelligent and informed answers to technical questions. Talk to David and tell him that James Self sent you.

Contact Info:

Crinan Marine, LTD.

176 Railway St.

Kingston, Ontario K7K 2L9

Voice 613-542-4917

Fax 613-542-4917

For those who are considering repowering and changing from their original engine make, I would certainly recommend looking at the Bukh. Mine was made by Bukh for Westerbeke. It is a thoroughbred marine engine from the ground up. They aren�t ex taxicab or tractor engines. I believe that you�ll find that they are not as pricey as the Yanmar as well.

James

Date: Wed Feb 6, 2002 0:40pm

Diesel engines and parts

I recommend checking with Crinan Marine for engines and/or parts. They deal in Bukh, Yanmar, Westerbeke, and Universal. I have found them to be up to half as expensive on certain engine parts for my Bukh as opposed to domestic dealers. They also do a lot of work on engines and can give you intelligent and informed answers to technical questions. Talk to David and tell him that James Self sent you.

Contact Info:

Crinan Marine, LTD.

176 Railway St.

Kingston, Ontario K7K 2L9

Voice 613-542-4917

Fax 613-542-4917

For those who are considering repowering and changing from their original engine make, I would certainly recommend looking at the Bukh. Mine was made by Bukh for Westerbeke. It is a thoroughbred marine engine from the ground up. They aren�t ex taxicab or tractor engines. I believe that you�ll find that they are not as pricey as the Yanmar as well.

James

Date: Thu Feb 21, 2002 5:01pm

Subject: Engine Update

Dear Folks,

I�ve been silent lately, busy with life and boat and stuff, but thought y�all might like an update on my Westerbeke job.

Voyager�s engine is now in the main cabin, in a billion little pieces. Sigh - will it ever get back together? Gaskets are on order. My poor boat is a mess with tools, parts, removed woodwork, etc all piled up below.

It�s interesting to note the engine�s condition. I hope this might give others a feeling of confidence; after all, it�s hard to trust an old engine. This engine looks like hell, dirty, rusty and all. Mine has 2700 hours on it. Status:

Piston heads (I�m not pulling the pistons but the head is off so I can look at these): Very little carbon, no grunge.

Cylinder walls: unscored. Look almost new.

Valves: a bit of carbon, but very little.

Head inner surfaces: brand new looking.

Oil pan: I expected after 25 years to find a layer of sludge. Nope. Just the very tiniest film of non-oil; almost unnoticeable. Some rust on the bottom of the pan, on the outside, no doubt due to a failed sea water pump.

Heat exchanger: look great, but going off to a shop for testing.

Manifold: a little carbon accumulation, easily cleaned out. No wear or corrosion.

I�ve been painting removed parts (transmission, bell housing, oil pan, manifold, etc), using Westerbeke Red and a Rustoleum primer. The engine block itself will get scraped and painted too, after reinstalling gaskets, head, etc. I�ll reseat the valves (just because it�s all apart) once the new seals come in.

But - after 2700 hours, this thing looks almost pristine internally.

Interesting things I�ve learned:

Westerbeke moved the oil stick from the British Leyland position. They put it in what is normally the oil pan drain, removing that drain from useful service. I intend to put a "T" there with a valve to ease oil changes.

The injector pump has an oil filter associated with it. The book says to remove and clean this every other oil change! That�s news to me. It�s one of those bolt heads on the starboard side. I have not yet removed it so no report on its condition yet.

The oil pickup in the oil pan has a rather large filter on it. It is perfectly clean.

Some of the head bolts are under the rocker arms. Worse, two of the rocker arm bolts are also head bolts, which means it�s impossible to torque the bolts under the arm without a special tool, which seems unavailable. I�ll try to fabricate one and will share with anyone needed to torque their head.

Jack, 057K Voyager

Date: Thu Feb 21, 2002 3:28pm

Subject: Re: Engine Update

Somewhere in the stuff which came with my boat is a funny looking wrench. I haven�t seen it for a while. If memory serves me, it was made by bending a wrench with 2 ninety degree angles so that if you look straight down from the driver end, the socket end will be in line with it. Each leg is about 4 inches. I�ll see if i can dig it up and post something clearer than the above mud.

Howard

Date: Thu Feb 21, 2002 5:21pm

Subject: Re: Engine Update

All,

Snap-On Tools still produces several special wrenches (as Howard has described) to torque head bolts below the rocker shaft. I used them for years when, in another life, I was a Volvo mechanic.

Jack. The salt water effected only the oil pan on my boat. Replaced it in 1992 otherwise almost similar lack of wear in anything! I did pull the pistons and put in new rings and bearings only because it had not been run in about 5-years when I got her. I suggest the aircraft fittings on a 2-foot neoprene based HP hose with a drain plug fitted to the free end. Makes oil changes almost bearable now.

Paul

Date: Thu Feb 21, 2002 9:27pm

Subject: Re: Engine Update

Howard and Paul,

As far as the oil pan goes, I was thinking about putting a T on the current dipstick fitting. The upper end of the T goes to the normal dipstick tube, the lower one to a valve for draining with a nipple that one can put a hose on. Connect the hose, flip the valve. Then no worries about high pressures and heat in a permanently attached hose. Does this make sense?

Jack 057K Voyager

Date: Mon Mar 18, 2002 11:47am

Subject: Re: Four/91 Heat Exchanger and oil cooler

Their webpage wasn�t much of anything but here are the phone numbers.

Stewart�s Marine, Inc.

4600 Shilshole Ave. NW

Seattle, WA 98107

(206) 789 - 4600

(800) 735 - 7207

If you contact them, please let us know what you think.

Date: Mon Mar 18, 2002 9:20am

Subject: Re: Four/91 Heat Exchanger and oil cooler

Dale,

I would recommend trying Crinan Marine in Canada. They deal in Westerbeke parts among others. I bought my Bukh parts there at about 40% to 50% cheaper than what the U.S. distributors were charging. Give them a try.

Contact infomation can be found at there website at

James Self, Niko (91)

Date: Tue Mar 19, 2002 8:16pm

Subject: Re: Four/91 Heat Exchanger and oil cooler

Howard,

I ordered both the HE and Trans oil cooler from Stewart�s; still $707 for both and gaskets. Aprox. 10 day delivery.

They had none in stock new or used of the HE #15799 but had the upgrade to the oil cooler in house. With shipping (no sales tax here) the price works out close to the Marine Diesel Westerbeke online store. The lady there did urge me to consider repowering instead of putting money into this engine. Will probably do just that when this iron horse incurs another major expense. For now it runs very well and its Sailing season here in Florida.

Thanks for the referral.

Dale

in Pensacola

PickPocket K14

Date: Wed Mar 20, 2002 5:51pm

Subject: Re: Repowering was Four/91 Heat Exchanger and oil cooler

I didn�t give her a chance to provide that info, but appreciate her cander.

The lube oil cooler seems to be sound for now but Westerbeke wants $494 for

a new one.

At these prices I don�t think I would want to suffer thru an engine

overhaul!

While shopping around for a 32/33 ft Cruiser before PickPocket, I researched a Pearson 323 and inquired on that e-mail list about the Volvo MD11.

The question was posed "What is the best way to overhaul that Volo?"

Someone answered "Yanmar 3GM"

There were some previous discussions on this list on the topic.

I believe comments about the Yanmar were: Higher revving, fuel consumption

and noise than the Westerbeke.

The Buhk and the Pathfinder were also discussed.

If I start finding water on the dipstick, I will probably entertain The Yanmar as a winter project.

But now that I have familiarized myself with my Westerbeke Four 91 at 2500

hrs. I hope not to part with it.

Dale

PickPocket K14

Date: Thu Mar 21, 2002 7:56am

Subject: Westerbeke Four-91

To All with a 4-91

I recently had a conversation with a marine surveyor from Mystic, Ct, who had just rebuilt his Westerbeke in an Allied Princess. He informed me that you could purchase engine parts from Perkins, who actually made the engine, for about 30% less then Westerbeke prices.

Best

Bill Dunsmore

Fancy Free #87

Date: Thu Mar 21, 2002 4:29am

Subject: Re: Repowering was Four/91 Heat Exchanger and oil cooler

I purchased my Seawind ll in April 2000. The original engine only had 827 hours on it and everyone said with that amount of hours I shouldn�t have to worry about an engine survey.

I had a few problems later with it smoking and had to hold my speed about 3-4 knots. In August 2000 on an overnighter, the impeller blew and I was towed into the marina where I purchased the boat.

We found the engine had no compression because the rings were shot and the choice of rebuilding the engine and taking a chance the transmission would go bad later did not look like a good deal to me. I learned that parts for the engine and transmission are almost impossible to find and if you can find them, the price is prohibitive.

I replaced my Westerbeke with a new Kubota 37HP diesel and it runs great.

It is smaller than the original and it is very quiet. I now have peace of mind and can enjoy my trips. You better believe we don�t baby this engine. Like the man said, " Those Kubota tractors run uphill all day long." Kubota has opened up a marine division in their company and there is good support.

You might want to look into the purchase of a new engine.

John VanDerburgh

skipper of van der Ellen

hull #98

Date: Thu Mar 21, 2002 8:21pm

Subject: Re: Repowering was Four/91 Heat Exchanger and oil cooler

It looks like we now have several repowering alternatives, between Yanmar 27G, Kubota 37HP and Pacific Marine 50 or 60, etc. We should take an inventory of all satisfied owners of such, and compare typical data, such as rev., torque, fuel economy, noise, etc. Bert dF, Pianissimo 80K

Date: Fri Mar 22, 2002 11:03am

Subject: Re: Repowering Comparisons

This sure would be helpful. Did anyone read the recent "review" of engines

in Practical Sailor? It was uncharacteristically useless (and the follow-up

letters to the editor this month seemed to suggest the same).

Tom Lix

Relief #17

Date: Fri Mar 22, 2002 0:54pm

Subject: Re: Repowering was Four/91 Heat Exchanger and oil cooler

In almost every case of the Kubota 37 HP engine application it has proved nearly indestructible.

A friend owns and operates three very large Bob Cat franchises in Conn. Each of the various loaders and skidders from the three largest manufacturers of this equipment has chosen Kubota for the majority of their power plant applications. The abuse given by landscapers and building contractors to this equipment is indescribably brutal. I was offered as much research as I wished regarding the service history of the engines. The Kubota 37 HP block more than has earned great respect in my eyes.

From a conversion standpoint the size, power-to-weight ration and adaptability have convinced me that it is the best engine for the task. The best news is that the complete engine (automotive adaptation) is less than $5,000 in the crate. The marinization can be accomplished by using the parts from Westerbeke/Universal or Barr Marine. I suspect that adapter plates to link one of the three transmission gears can be made or purchased. I have not gone that far as yet.

The more important understanding about the import duties levied upon Japan built engines is the import duty is based upon stated horsepower. The Yanmar states 27 HP and actually dynos at 31 when at maximum RPM.... Considering the general rule for sailboat power where the max RPM should be 90% of max RPM Yanmar delivers about 28 HP. The same rule for the cheaper Kubota delivers almost 35!

Since replacement of the relatively slow turning W-30 with a higher RPM plant, consideration for not only the mounts and bed adjustments but the propeller replacement for a flatter pitch adds several hundred dollars to the equation. The marinized Yanmar installations will likely net out at about $12,000. The Kubota appears considerably less than $10,000 if the conversions are each professionally done. "Sweat equity" saves even more in the Kubota job.

Paul

Date: Mon Apr 1, 2002 11:46am

Subject: How many SWII�s with Bukh engines?

Howard,

I was wondering if my SWII was the only one with a Bukh installed from the factory. Were all of the other factory engines either Westerbeke or Universals?

James, Niko (91)

Date: Mon Apr 1, 2002 2:24pm

Subject: Re: How many SWII�s with Bukh engines?

James,

Our engine is a 55HP Pathfinder, which is made in Canada. They have an excellent reputation, produce a engine manual for owners to conduct all maintenance themselves and offer the best of assistance. All engineering changes are sent to the owner of record, and parts availability is world wide from VW. This is a German made diesel. Product support is excellent and exchange long blocks are available when the time comes for overhaul.

Don Bundy

Date: Wed Apr 24, 2002 11:39am

Subject: Repowering a Seawind (30 ft) from GrayMarine gas to Yanmar or Bukh diesel?

I�m a new Seawind owner with lots of work waiting for me. I�ll be

based in Port Washington, LI, and yes, I plan to look up "James"

because it seems lots of what he did, I�ll be starting to do. Please

remember that plagiarism is the finest form of flattery.

My first challenge will be to repower. I initially planned to

install an electric drive, probably a Solomon Electric wheel, but

their price, plus all the added electronics came to about $20,000.

My more conservative plan is to go the Diesel route. I was set on a

Yanmar 3GM30F, but I read the post on Bukh engines, which got me to

think and speak with their distributor (Crinon Marine).

I would love to hear anyone�s ideas on what is the best approach. Specifically, I would like to understand the differences in complexity between swapping out the GrayMarine for either the Yanmar or the Bukh DV32ME. Also, is the Bukh thaty much better (200 lbs and $1,400)?

Thanks for all the help you can give me.

Andrzej

Date: Wed Apr 24, 2002 7:12pm

Subject: Re: Repowering a Seawind (30 ft) from GrayMarine gas to Yanmar or Bukh diesel?

Andrzej,

The Bukh DV32 ME and the DV24 are two cylinder engines based on the same engine block as my DV20. The DV 24 gains the four extra HP through direct cylinder injection and the DV32 gains its extra HP via a turbocharger. Bukhs have a higher weight-to-HP ratio than the Yanmars and Westerbekes, and I believe that they are more durable and serviceable in the long run. They are built from the ground up as marine engines as opposed to those of other makes that are marinized after their manufacture. Their cylinders have replaceable sleeves. The U.S. Coast Guard rough water rescue boats (the ones that came roll 360 degrees) have Bukh engines.

I also suspect that Bukh engines take up less room laterally, although they are somewhat tall. I could see about scanning and sending you some pictures of my engine. I have plenty of room to change the oil filter, alternator, and starter from the engine compartment doors in the cabin. I am also able to get to other parts of the engine from within the port and starboard lazarettes.

Date: Wed Apr 24, 2002 9:30pm

Subject: Re: Repowering a Seawind (30 ft) from GrayMarine gas to Yanmar or Bukh diesel?

What�s her name and hull number, by the Way?

Date: Mon Jun 24, 2002 9:08pm

Subject: Repowering with Yanmar 27G. Urgent questions.

over the past month, Seawind IIK Pianissimo�s valorous WEsterbeke W30 has shown rather dismal signals, a la Sea Quill or Flicka, compelling me to consider repowering, and the Yanmar 27G seems to have many supporters.

anyone cares to comment? any cost numbers (new engine, removal and installation, new longer shaft, etc.). I have a maxprop so no need to change the propeller.

By the way, the latest travail was the popping up of the "oil sender", a screwed in cap with two flat electrodes that spewed most of the oil into the pan and bilge, although I was reasonably prompt in detecting a swift decline in oil pressure from 60psi to 40 psi and 20psi by the time I had checked the exhaust (normal but smelling hot oil) and shut off the engine.

I have cleaned up, refilled with new oil, rescrewed a new cap and started the engine all right, but somehow I have lost confidence, and worse, my wife too...

So, any inputs on cost and precautions on fitting a Yanmar 27G? or do people regret not having put in a Yanmar 40, (but isn�t it too high, and bumping intop the fuel tank?).

Thanks for a prompt answer: I am leaving Friday 28 for a mont in europe which would be good for getting the job done.

Kind Regards and fair winds. Bert de Frondeville

Date: Sat Jun 29, 2002 9:15am

Subject: Westerbeke 30 starter

Chautauqua has a Westerbeke 30 & I am having starter problems. I need information on removal & sequence of removing bolts being as least 2 of them go through the motor mount. Does engine have to be blocked for removal. Problem does seem to be electrical but cannot trace cause. Does anyone have prior experience with this?

Intermittently, when pushing start button, starter starts to engage but then the entire electrical system shuts down. Everything works again but it may be from me shaking the wires or just on it�s on it�s own.

My plan is to remove starter & have it checked out at a shop.

I would appreciate any advise.

John Morrison Chautauqua #92

Date: Sun Jun 30, 2002 4:07pm

Subject: Re: Westerbeke 30 starter

Haven�t had this problem yet but I have researched starter replacement without going thru Westerbeke (Lotsa money). If you need any of this info please let me know/

Danny Prater

#086S, Taralah

Date: Wed Jul 3, 2002 9:20am

Subject: Westerbeke fresh water pump

I need to replace my Westerbeke fresh water pump part #17909.

Diesel direct $427.00 remanufactured

Westerbeke (Hanson Marine) $428.00. new ?

Do I have any other options, that anyone knows of ?

Thanks

Bill Dunsmore

Fancy Free #87

Date: Wed Jul 3, 2002 10:00am

Subject: Re: Westerbeke 30 starter

John,

Just had my W-30 starter out for overhaul in 2001..... two bolts through the mount, two lags through the stringer, remove the mount, no blocks required... possibly a bar to jiggle the alignment as the starter is replaced.

Paul

Sea Quill

Date: Wed Jul 3, 2002 1:39pm

Subject: Re: Westerbeke fresh water pump

Go directly to Jabsco and save $200. They have direct outlets in several coastal cities and a website. We carry a spare, when through the same deal with Bob Hanson and Westerbeke, and went to Jabsco. It won�t be Westerbeke red, but buy a can of red paint it you insist on color coordination.

Silver Spray 101K

Date: Wed Jul 3, 2002 5:47pm

Subject: Starter

Danny,

Any info will be appreciated on removal & replacement of starter.

Paul,

Thanks for the info...we will consider the parts. I�m going to chase down corrosion in the electrical wiring from the battery switches before removing the starter since power breakdown is intermittent.

Thank you. John Chautauqua

Date: Thu Jul 4, 2002 3:00pm

Subject: Re: Westerbeke 30 starter

Paul:

Do you have a price list?

Danny Prater

#086S, TARALAH

Date: Fri Jul 5, 2002 1:03pm

Subject: Starter

John,

Starters often become intermittent in the solenoid contacts......

Paul

Date: Sat Jul 6, 2002 9:07pm

Subject: REPLY

Paul,

Thank you for both bits of info. We are going to the boat tomorrow & will check it out.

John

Date: Sat Jul 6, 2002 10:47pm

Subject: Re: Westerbeke fresh water pump

If your engine uses a Kubota block you might try locating a Kubota tractor dealer and if they use the same fresh water pump the replacement may be less costly. If it is not a Kubota block find out what kind it does use and see if a non-marine dealer has it. Good luck and let us all know what happens.

Phil

Date: Sun Jul 7, 2002 7:08pm

Subject: Re: Westerbeke fresh water pump

Bill,

I purchased a fresh water pump about 8 years ago in Miami and I only think it was about $250, let me know if you have not resolved your problem and I�ll try to find the old receipt.

I assume the bearings have burned out. Why dont you pull it and take it to a machine shop and see if they can replace the bearings.

On the salt water pump I replaced the bearings myself. Boat US helped me find the replacement bearings through their Specialty Parts Dept.

Good Luck!

Barry V

Date: Sun Jul 7, 2002 11:21pm

Subject: Re: Westerbeke fresh water pump

My old Westerbeke-30 is out and on the ground.... it just happens to have a brand new circulation pump and a new raw water pump.... the circulation pump was $415 from Westerbeke... Anyone need a pump?

Paul

Sea Quill

Date: Wed Jul 10, 2002 11:24am

Subject: Re: Repowering with Yanmar 27G. Urgent questions.

Yes, I repowered w/a 3GM several years ago.

1. Fuel tank had to be replaced and had it replaced w/ a 45 gal. alumn. ( I suggest you do this when you have the Westerbeke pulled. I actaully gave the old Westerbeke away for a thousand dolla.

2. Will have to cut out the original engine mount, not an easy job since it is basicly resin and many a sawzall blade later. John new

3. Of course you will renew the shaft and coupling.

4. Another thing I would suggest is a Cambel Prop. You will be definately impressed. The props performance sells itself and I believe you will be satisfied. Even if it is a strange looking beast.

5. I had John Moore, of Moore Marine in Mobile, Alabama do the installation.

John is also a Yanmar dealer.

Yes, I recommend the Yanmar 3GM, I only wish I could have had it installed when Panache was purchased in 1988. I will be out of touch for two weeks.

Have a rather great day,

Gene N. Kohrman

Panache, hull #60

Date: Sat Jul 20, 2002 0:25pm

Subject: Re: Westerbeke 30 starter

John,

I do have that almost brand new W-30 starter available... have you located your problem yet?

Paul

Date: Sat Jul 20, 2002 1:12pm

Subject: Westerbeke 30 Starter

I have replaced the starter of a Westerbeke 30. As I recall one of

the mounting bolts is almost inaccessable as it is near the starboard,

rear motor mount. That bolt is best accessed with a special kind of

socket (I have forgotten the name) which is like an open-end wrench

and extends at right angles from the drive shaft of the socket wrench.

I also had to back off the motor mount to have access, and then when

the new starter was installed, return the same number of turns on the

motor mount.

The starter is very heavy, and removing it is a two man job, I think. Because of the awkward position, I don�t think any but superman can hold the weight of the starter in position. I arranged a sling of rope around the starter with two ends. The ends each came out a cockpit locker, one on each side. I took up the slack with winches which I have mounted on the mizzen for mizzen halyard and mizzen staysail halyard, but you could arrange some other way to control those lines if necessary. We had one man in the cockpit locker removing the bolts and one controlling the lines.

I think you may well have a bad starter. My local starter shop was able to fix mine, and also to provide a spare.

Dick Weaver, SWII 75K

Date: Sun Jul 21, 2002 3:25pm

Subject: Re: Westerbeke 30 Starter

I believe the open ended ratchet socket you refer to is called a "Club Foot"

A wrench size1/2" taped securely to a ratchet extension has gotten alot of

use aboard PickPocket.

Also works well for removing the fresh water heat exchanger.

Dale White

PickPocket K14

Date: Sun Jul 21, 2002 7:11pm

Subject: Starter removal/replacement

The starboard side motor mount is easily removed if the lag screws into the stringer are first removed. The entire bracket slips out with almost no sagging from the engine position. The reinstallation may require a very slight lift with a crow bar and the holes all line up once the starter is re-installed.

Expensive but well worth the purchase. Now, the good news.... coat the prop, shaft and any underwater, bronze fitting with the stuff and kiss the marine growth goodbye.

Date: Sun Jul 21, 2002 7:05pm

Subject: Re: Westerbeke 30 Starter

Dale,

Actually, you are very close to correct, the actual term is "crow�s foot" but in any case the correct tool does a very much easier job than the 1/8 turn you get from flipping the open end wrench about 60 times for the starter. The manifold/heat exchanger is another story...

Paul

Sea Quill

Date: Tue Jul 23, 2002 10:34am

Subject: repowering with the Yanmar

Date: Tue Jul 23, 2002 5:51pm

Subject: Re: repowering with the Yanmar

Paul

Please take another shot at posting the pictures. Mine didn�t make it.

Thanks

Howard WA4CWK

S/V Scooter II, Allied Seawind II #67

Shady Side, Chesapeake Bay, MD

Date: Tue Jul 23, 2002 7:30pm

Subject: Westerbeke during the refit

Attachment 86k (image/jpeg) Westerbeke front detail copy.jpg

Date: Tue Jul 23, 2002 7:32pm

Subject: Empty and very clean compartment

Attachment 431k (image/jpeg) Engine replacement 001.jpg

Date: Tue Jul 23, 2002 7:34pm

Subject: Engine beds modified

Attachment 431k (image/jpeg) Engine replacement 002.jpg

Date: Tue Jul 23, 2002 7:36pm

Subject: Tiny Yanmar

Attachment 410k (image/jpeg) Engine replacement 003.jpg

Date: Tue Jul 23, 2002 8:10pm

Subject: Westerbeke to Yanmar

Today was one of those days that any ASW II owner prays for.

Much of the final installation work has been finalized.

The access is just incredible.

My mechanic, Pete, 5 foot 8", 160 pounds, crawled easily down the port side of the engine, installed the 1 �" Aqua-Lift muffler and a small CCA table it mounts upon, directly into the bilge, just below the after end of the transmission coupling. Aligned the engine in about ten minutes by quickly shifting his body around and over the engine almost effortlessly. Best, I am 6 foot 3" and I was able to easily get to the stuffing box with two hands for the very first time since 1991.

New shaft is 45 inches to the end of the taper and 47 inches overall. The prop now sits directly in the center of the aperture. THIS LEAVES ENOUGH ROOM FOR A BULLET ZINC. Mounting further aft of the deadwood offers less hub cavitation from the ASW�s wide deadwood, thus a bit more power.

The original prop was reconditioned and installed temporarily while I�m awaiting the new one. The old 16 X 12, RH and the new is 17 X 12, RH and of the new "sail blade" design from Michigan Wheel ($435.00). This was specified by the dealer to consider the deadwood and is expected to produce 25% more thrust at speed. The computer calculates the boat speed, under power (cruise) to increase from, originally, 5.4 knots to 5.8 knots with less overall torque required.

The new 100 amp Ample Power alternator fits as if designed for the Yanmar. The "saddle" mounting fits perfectly in place of the stock 65 amp unit and the wiring has been set up to emulate the Yanmar so the Yanmar may be used as a spare. Cool, eh?

Its worth all of the money and effort just to be able to do that stuff!

Launching on Thursday....................... Hoorah!

Paul

Sea Quill

Date: Wed Jul 24, 2002 10:21am

Subject: Re: Westerbeke to Yanmar

Paul, thank you and congratulations. These pictures are most helpful and

encouraging. I�m curious if you�re going to leave engine access the same

as it originally was, or whether you�ll be re-building somewhat differently

to gain better access.

Tom Lix

Relief #17

>Subject: [Allied_Seawind_II] Westerbeke to Yanmar

>Date: Tue, 23 Jul 2002 20:10:58 -0400

>

>Today was one of those days that any ASW II owner prays for.

>

>Much of the final installation work has been finalized.

>

>The access is just incredible.

>

>My mechanic, Pete, 5 foot 8", 160 pounds, crawled easily down the port side

>of the engine, installed the 1 �" Aqua-Lift muffler and a small CCA table

>it mounts upon, directly into the bilge, just below the after end of the

>transmission coupling. Aligned the engine in about ten minutes by quickly

>shifting his body around and over the engine almost effortlessly. Best, I

>am 6 foot 3" and I was able to easily get to the stuffing box with two

>hands for the very first time since 1991.

>

>New shaft is 45 inches to the end of the taper and 47 inches overall. The

>prop now sits directly in the center of the aperture. THIS LEAVES ENOUGH

>ROOM FOR A BULLET ZINC. Mounting further aft of the deadwood offers less

>hub cavitation from the ASW�s wide deadwood, thus a bit more power.

>

>The original prop was reconditioned and installed temporarily while I�m

>awaiting the new one. The old 16 X 12, RH and the new is 17 X 12, RH and of

>the new "sail blade" design from Michigan Wheel ($435.00). This was

>specified by the dealer to consider the deadwood and is expected to produce

>25% more thrust at speed. The computer calculates the boat speed, under

>power (cruise) to increase from, originally, 5.4 knots to 5.8 knots with

>less overall torque required.

>

>The new 100 amp Ample Power alternator fits as if designed for the Yanmar.

>The "saddle" mounting fits perfectly in place of the stock 65 amp unit and

>the wiring has been set up to emulate the Yanmar so the Yanmar may be used

>as a spare. Cool, eh?

>

>Its worth all of the money and effort just to be able to do that stuff!

>

>Launching on Thursday....................... Hoorah!

>

>Paul

>Sea Quill

Date: Wed Jul 24, 2002 0:56pm

Subject: Motor Mounts

I avoided removing the screws holding the motor mount when I replaced

the starter. I doubt the motor mount is ever held as securely after

the lag bolts have been removed and then re-tightened.

Dick Weaver SWIIK75

Date: Wed Jul 24, 2002 11:11pm

Subject: Re: Tiny Yanmar

Paul,

She sure looks pretty!!!

James

Date: Sun Jul 28, 2002 3:11pm

Subject: Re: Tiny Yanmar

Beautiful . . .

I know you will like the the new Yanmar. I only wish I had installed Panache�s 3GM in �88 when purchased. Never thought you could craw on top on an engine in a Seawind II, did you?

Have you thought of a CAMBELL prop? Did so three years ago and am thoroughly impressed with the little beast.

Regards,

Gene N. Kohrman

Hull #60

Date: Mon Aug 12, 2002 5:00pm

Subject: Westerbeke Starter

To All

Recently I remember a message about removing the starter without removing the motor mount. I neglected to save it, and now I need to remove my starter.

Please send it again.

Thanks

Bill Dunsmore " Fancy Free "

Date: Mon Aug 12, 2002 7:51pm

Subject: Re: Westerbeke 30 Starter

Bill,

Disconnect both cables to the start battery..... FIRST

Actually the easiest way is simply to remove the two lag bolts holding the engine mount bracket from the stringer/bed and the two that pass through the starter. A few taps with a hammer will encourage the bracket and the mount to slide aft, intact. (Tie a string on it as the bilge gets very hungry just about then.) The engine will not fall but stay very stable.

Remove the last bolt from the starter and generally the starter will then need a stiff whack to break it free of the bell housing. I suggest removing the battery cable and the solenoid wires from the starter once it is clear of the engine and into the starboard lazarette, near the battery shelf.

After re-installing the starter the engine may need a slight lift with a well-placed 2 X 4 to slip the engine mount bracket back into position.

The whole job to remove takes about 30 minutes, a hammer and an elf. Installing; about an hour, two beers and three small Band-Aids.

Paul

Sea Quill

Date: Tue Aug 13, 2002 9:00am

Subject: Starter Removal

I am reluctant to remove the motor mount as I doubt that the motor mount will be held as securely when the lag bolts are re-inserted.

I was able to back off the adjusting nuts on the motor mount and then get the starter off. I would suggest that you have the starter held securely before removing the final bolt into the bell housing. I used a rope sling with one end leading up each cockpit locker to mizzen halyard winches, but any other way of securing it would be OK. The winches make for easy and slight adjustments of the sling.

If you remember how many turns you backed off the nuts, you can replace the engine in its proper position.

Dick Weaver SWII75K